Takatoshi Shibayama: 0:00

Hey, hey, hey, welcome to this week's episode of Blockhead's Blockcast. I'm your host, Takatoshi Shibayama. I'm also the head of APAC for Ledger. I aim to uncover the creative, intelligent, and radical minds who are shaping the crypto industry today. I'm as crypto curious as anybody that's tuning into this show. We're doing this together, guys. Let's go. Mr. Kapil Dhiman, co-founder and CEO of Quranium Blockchain. Welcome to the show.

Kapil Dhiman: 0:32

Thank you very much, Takatoshi. It's a pleasure to be on the show with you. Always a pleasure speaking with you and now in a different setup. So looking forward to this conversation. Yeah,

Takatoshi Shibayama: 0:39

this time around, I'm the host and you're the guest. And this time, I think a year ago, we were the opposite side. So really happy to have you on this podcast. And we're really looking forward to understanding more about your blockchain and how it impacts this world. As I mentioned, you're the co-founder and CEO of Quranium. It's a quantum proof blockchain. We've discussed it many times over, you know, offline that the urgency of quantum proofing, you know, blockchain and all other things in our digital life is going to be super important going forward. and I really want to pick your brains on how we can prepare ourselves for that future and not only for like blockchain but everything else but before we really go deep dive into that kind of stuff I would really like to understand about you I've seen your profile you had really colorful backgrounds and you know things that are not related to blockchain so you know really like to understand like you know where you started your journey and how you actually discovered crypto and then why did you make the jump to starting a layer one blockchain yourself. Sure.

Kapil Dhiman: 1:42

Thanks for the question, Taka. My journey has been just like any other regular guy who's passionate about creating something new and making a difference in the world. I come from a humble family background where we learned that the value of relationships and value of ethics is much more than value of money. So if I, you know, take a summary of my parents' teachings to me, that would be it. So I grew up in that kind of an environment and my father was in the Air Force, he retired. So every three years I would be moving to a different part of the country. So learned a lot about new cultures, different cultures, different languages, different religions. And it was always very fascinating to meet people from different walks of life. and understand what they're doing.

Kapil Dhiman: 2:28

Fast forward, in terms of my education, I chose to be ahead in academics more than creativity so that I can ensure that my family is well taken care of. So by education, I'm a CPA. I cleared that and then just like 80% of CPAs would do. I entered the consulting world, a big four consulting firm, and started doing financial tax and legal consulting for domestic as well as international clients. So for the first five years of my career, I built businesses for others. Day one, the day I got my first salary, I realized that I want to do something different. And I still remember that moment when my first salary, I hit my bank account. I was working for it for like four years, right? Because CPA is a very difficult course you study. And I was doing my internship So I was really looking forward to become a CPA, enter this real world and be the best consultant in the world. We have seen very passionate about it. But the day the first salary came, I remember going to my boss and be like, it's not that the salary was bad. The salary was really good. They pay you well. But it's just that you realize that, okay, you are meant for something different. And from that day onwards, 80% of my salary, I started investing in ideas that I wanted to bring to life.

Kapil Dhiman: 3:37

So my journey of entrepreneurship actually started from 2014, 2013 rather for that matter. The day I made my first paycheck, 80% of that I started investing. I had an idea, I would bring people together, develop the MVP, develop the products, go out in the market, start testing it. Failed a lot of times, succeeded a few times, but the journey was the most amazing thing that I could hope for. There was a time when my friends and my colleagues were buying houses, buying cars, and I was like almost broke because I was spending all my money in building a passionate idea that I had. That's how it started. And my entry into crypto was a result of, you know, to create an alter ego for my business that I was doing at that time. So I was an artist, a professional music artist, DJ, became a rapper, started producing music. And then I started a music label where at the peak, we were managing 15 top hip-hop artists in India and was doing fairly well for itself. And right before COVID is when crypto and, you know, blockchain started picking up a lot of steam. And my curiosity pushed me to dive deeper into it and study a lot about it. So when I did that, I realized that this is like literally deleting middlemen from business. That's like the take out that I got from it and looking at the business that I was into which was like a music label it's you are a middleman you groom artists they perform shows and you take a cut out of it and then I decided that I didn't feel connected with it anymore so I spoke with my partner and my partner was like you're an idiot this is the best time we are making good good money why would you like to kind of just exit now I said I don't feel the purpose of doing this right so I exited from that and created a social media platform for the music industry where artists can collect their with fans and the whole pay to earn or pay to watch thing that we see trending right now, I created this like six years back.

Kapil Dhiman: 5:26

That was my first entry into blockchain and crypto. That was the first product I built. I ran it for a year. I sold it to an agency and that was the most rewarding and the most fulfilling journey I had in terms of creating something, bringing it to life because I saw change. I really saw artists, young artists who a music label would never even talk to. They had the opportunity through that platform to create a team, they created bands, they monetized, they made money. I had stories where parents were like, you know, these artists were making their parents videos and sending to me that their parents are happy that okay, now my kid is making money from the art. Otherwise, he was just wasting time. So that kind of an emotional journey is something that was really satisfying. And finally, after so many years of building, I felt like, okay, this is what entrepreneurship actually is. When you are able to create change, when you are able to bring a smile into somebody's life, that's the kind of product and that's the kind of journey I want to build.

Kapil Dhiman: 6:23

After I concluded that journey, I was appointed as the Web3 head for PwC India. I got the opportunity to work with some really, really talented and intelligent individuals around the globe, learned the craft of how these kind of deals happens in the boardroom. So, you know, my experience of building street products and going to the market married with the entire boardroom experience, that gave me a lot of push. And then in 2023, I moved out and built a metaverse and gaming company. which became the fastest growing company in India. So we became the metaverse startup of the year. And, you know, after that I realized, you know, it's time because I've been running, running, running, running, like building one thing after the other, gaining a lot of experience, doing well professionally.

Kapil Dhiman: 7:04

But then if you take a pause and ask a question to yourself, okay, what impact have you created on this planet? So that's an answer that I started chasing. And my mom is very religious. So she taught me that we become a human after 40 million lives, 40 million or 4 million. I don't have the exact number, but you will really become like different, different species around the world. And then you become a human. The reason she wanted to tell me that was so that I become more religious and more spiritual. But that take out that I took from it was that I've got one life, just one. If I don't do something impactful in this life, you know, whenever I leave this world, the higher superior universe and the God, as we call it, who sent me to this planet, you know, it'll be laughing on me like, okay, it was a waste of life, right? So then I started asking that question to myself, why I exist. And I went on a spiritual journey for a couple of months. I did not speak with anybody. And the only thing I was chasing was, why am I here? And I came out with a lot of learnings.

Kapil Dhiman: 8:04

And that's a much longer discussion on what happened in that journey. But when I came out of that journey, I came out with a strong belief that I am chosen to create something really impactful on this world. I'm chosen to change this world for good. I'm not going to die till I achieve that. I'm not going to fall sick till I achieve that. I'm not going to lose till I achieve that. I was 100% sure about it, 100%. And then started the journey of, okay, now what do I do to bring this belief and to bring this fact to life for the larger universe? There could have been a lot of things that I could have done. For example, enter the AI industry, start an AI startup. I had investors ready to put in money to, okay, let's do this. At that time, the whole AI agent economy was booming. Let's start AI thing. Metaverse was booming. DeFi was booming. Layer 2s was a trend. But it was like, OK, then I'm just doing everything that everybody else is doing. What can I do that will impact the next 10 years?

Kapil Dhiman: 9:03

And that's when quantum and blockchain came on my table. And when I studied that, I realized that this is the biggest white space. Nobody's taking it seriously. Everybody thinks it is far ahead. But if you dive deeper and you apply logic to it, it's simple math. It's really, really simple math. What secures blockchain is math. What is quantum computing and what is GPUs? is something that can break this math but nobody's ready to pay attention to it because everybody's comfortable in their skin making a lot of money what they're existingly doing when that happened i gave myself a target of speaking with 100 people which i consider much more intelligent than me from across the walks of life to discuss this idea that okay creating a layer one blockchain with quantum security in focus and if i was able to convince more than 50 i'll start this. And the result was more than 55% of the people turned out to be that, yes, it is going to be a great initiative, but be prepared. It's going to be one of the most painful journeys of your life because you'll be. And I was like, perfect. That's what I signed up for. And that's what gave birth to Quranium.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 10:01

Interesting story. I mean, look, I feel like we have a lot of things in common. Like when I was in university, I used to DJ hip-hop style, did a lot of scratching and juggling and all that kind of stuff. So I do relate to that kind of interest in music. And also, you know, the idea about like, you only have one life, you can believe in reincarnation, you can believe that there's heaven and hell, whatever it is, you know, that's all faith based. But what you know for sure right now is that you only got this life. And if you want to do something in this life, you have to make it happen because who knows what's going to happen later. I mean, we just die into nothingness or it could be, you know, reincarnated to a toad for that matter.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 10:40

You don't know, but you know, we've got to make this life happen. And also the contribution to me is like contributing to others. to this world is very valuable and that gives me happiness and that gives me meaning. And I think that's what people personally I think should be striving for, not these monetary goals that people have. And I think that's not really what makes the world change. So I'm super in line with you. I really, that's why I think I really get along with you every time I speak with you. You know, even though we don't discuss these things in pure detail, but you know, I just kind of get a sense that we get along. So yeah, let's dive into that quantum stuff because we can talk about other things offline.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 11:17

But in terms of quantum, I mean, obviously, you know, quantum has been talked about for quite some time. I talked about, you know, a lot of this maybe like five years ago with people from Microsoft and Google, you know, I would really want to understand like how is this going to impact or do lies, not just blockchain. And obviously, you know, the computers that we have, the GPUs that we have are zero and one bits, right? And quantum is different. It's structured in a different way. It processes things in a different way. What is the math, you know, kind of 10x or like 100x jump from what we have as a normal computer to like a quantum computer? What is the real-life application of quantum computing that we don't get from our current computers that we have today?

Kapil Dhiman: 12:01

The way I would put it, Taka, is I'll also add GPUs in between, right? So that we can cover the journey of classical computer to quantum and why does it matter? Simply put, What is a computer is a processing machine. It allows us the strength to process large amount of data. Now that data can be in any form. It could be a visual data. It could be a textual data. It could be a mathematical data. It is anything. So this conversation that we are having, there is a processing happening in the background that our computers are doing, which is allowing us to connect and speak with each other with fluidity, without any bottleneck. The same conversation if we have on a computer, which is like 10 years old, we will face a lot of latency because the processing unit or the CPU is not fast enough to process this kind of high-end video. That's what a computer does. Processes data. It's a calculator. It's anything that you want to call it. That's multiply it by 100 and does GPUs.

Kapil Dhiman: 12:56

GPUs initially was created for enhancing gaming experiences. Why? Because again, gaming is very high and a lot of graphics to enjoy a seamless experience. You need a lot of processing on the background. I'm a 90s kid. I grew up playing a lot of video games. Even today, I play PlayStation, that kid never dies. I remember we used to buy those graphic cards that we will put in our computer. There was an extra slot in our computer where you can put in graphic card. You put a graphic card in and you play a game, the experience will be 10x. Without the graphic card, many games would not even run. Again, processing. Then multiply that GPU with 100 or 1,000 for that matter, enters quantum computer. That's a completely different ballgame altogether. The reason is they use qubits instead of bits, so which allows them thousand times or a million times more computation strength to process any kind of data.

Kapil Dhiman: 13:46

Why does it matter is anything that we do in the digital world today, whether it is on the application side, development of any application or on the security side, everything is data, everything is compute. Now, the biggest application that we have started seeing already for a quantum computer, you asked that example, is in the agriculture field or in the drug discovery field. If today a normal computer or a GPU takes one year to predict and to come out with an outcome of whether a drug would work or not, the same can be done 10 times, 100 times faster with a quantum computer. What does it mean? Accessibility of advanced drugs, advanced medication for the world at large, much faster. We can really solve many medical problems much faster than we could have solved with the existing computers. Same is happening in the finance field. Same is happening in the automotive field. We are just getting much faster computers to get our hands on to solve any kind of problems. It advances our tech industry. As a result, our human species and the world at large at 100x speed. It is giving us tools with which we can just create something so quick.

Kapil Dhiman: 14:53

Take AI, for example. One year back, we were using designers to sketch everything. Today, we just go on ChatGPT and it's done. For social media posts, we would hire a designer. Today, we are doing it through AI. I'm not saying that the designer is redundant. The designer is doing a different job, but it just makes your regular job much easier. It is making humans more efficient. The reason I wanted to explain it in a very plain manner is because many people see quantum computer and they imagine like a big black box, which it is, and they think like, okay, it is far ahead in the future. No, it's not. Just like GPUs today, we can rent virtually through cloud for $2 an hour, $10 an hour. You can rent a GPU and you can run your servers on it.

Kapil Dhiman: 15:35

Similarly, quantum computers have started becoming accessible like this virtually in smaller portions now. The more the advancement is happening in the next few years, we will see quantum computers being used just like we are using GPUs today. Imagine what will happen to AI then. If today we are finding the video generation, for example, recently Google released that tool where you can generate the AI video and it is blowing everybody's mind. That is because at the back end, behind it, there are powerful GPUs which are supporting this kind of video generation, the processing. That's an outcome of that. Remove the GPU from example, you're not going to see even an image. You're seeing a very beautiful and close to perfection video because at the back end, we have powerful machineries which is sitting, which is a GPU.

Kapil Dhiman: 16:21

Now, when quantum computers comes in, you will see a hundred X of that. It is going to be like insanely, insanely cool things that our human generations would see. I feel fortunate that I'm born in this age and I'm getting to see this transformation. Like my son, he's two years old. When he grows up, for him, this will be like the usual thing. You know, yeah, okay, this is normal. For us, we have seen it how from, cassettes, tapes, and now this GPU and Quantum, this evolution. This is what will set a stepping stone for the next two generations at least.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 16:50

Totally agree. And, you know, my question would be like, so quantum computing is already here. I'm seeing those photos of like these computers in these like really cold rooms and regenerate and processing data. Can they actually be used for these AI tools or the video edit or generation tools or things that we're doing today? Are they actually applicable today or does it need a lot more tweaks to get it to where consumers can start using it? And are there like examples of what, you know, quantum computing has done to show the results that they actually solved a certain issue or they came up with some kind of prediction that normal computers haven't done today.

Kapil Dhiman: 17:30

So two questions there. Number one is applications of quantum in the AI today. Can consumers at large, like people like you and I, use it to perfection? The answer is no. There is a reason to that. But can enterprises, big institutions use it? The answer is yes. They are doing it because we want, when we pay $20 for chat GPT, for example, we want perfect outcome or we want close to perfect outcome. Quantum computer, the nature of qubits, the way they operate, again, the concept of entanglement and a lot of other things that come together, not going into too much of technicalities in the interest of time, they are not perfect. They are super fast, but they are not 100% accurate today.

Kapil Dhiman: 18:11

And that is error correction. That's the concept of error correction in qubits. And that is what slowly and steadily why the quantum computing by Google was such a big celebration. Because with the increasing qubits, the error correction also gets better. which means more the qubits added lesser will be the errors in the outcome so when we are moving in that direction and we reach close to zero errors that's when it will be consumer ready for daily applications otherwise it will be like you know super fast for sure cost efficient as well to some extent if you know, because big enterprises are funding it big time right now.

Kapil Dhiman: 18:47

But it will not be perfect when will it be perfect and closer for users to be used in my estimate here will hear a lot of people saying five years ten years but according to me it should be a year by 2026 we'll start seeing real world applications of quantum computers where users like you and i can start using it for multiple purposes a year tops literally and i'm seeing this after seeing like the in and out of so much developments happening the last two years i've spent only in this business so that's what the reality is now an example of have we seen something quantum computer doing what the other computer would not do many cases.

Kapil Dhiman: 19:21

And not just now, I think in 2019, Google declared quantum supremacy by solving a problem that a normal computer would have taken 10,000 years to solve. Recently as well, I think they solved a problem with the speed of the universe, something like that. So the supremacy and solving a problem much faster than the classical computer or GPUs, there are many examples. All one has to do is just do a Google and you will find plenty. But is that important or understanding How is it happening? More important. I always put the latter one on the pedestal, right? How is it happening is more important because we know for a fact, like quantum computers, so much powerful computer, it will solve things much faster. No doubt about it.

Kapil Dhiman: 20:01

But the way I see it is like, if you go back to the 90s, mainframe computers, 80s and 90s, mainframe computers was like, like literally the whole room, right? Today, that same computer is this, this phone that is in our pocket, the same thing. Today we are sitting quantum computer. When we see a big computer occupying an entire room correlated with that. And it's very much faster. Much faster. Exactly. That's where I was coming. It's not going to take 25 years for that quantum computer to come in your pocket. It will take five years or six years max. And this quantum computer, which is the size of a big room, will be in our pockets.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 20:31

Makes sense. Makes sense. And obviously, you know, there's a lot of upsides or positives of having a quantum computer. And I'm going to tee this up for you. But what are the downsides as well? Because with great technology, there's always, you know, positive outcomes and negatives as well.

Kapil Dhiman: 20:45

Yeah. I mean, we have grownups watching it in movies, right? All the Marvel movies, as we see, most of them there is a strong iron man for example you create a strong technology and then some evil power wants to use that technology for something evil right same as real life or like the movies are inspired from real life any big new technology which is super fast or has a lot of potential to change the world also has a flip side right you can use the same technology for negative purposes as well now if i talk about our blockchain industry relating to the industry we are in the quantum computers can break the encryption you know it's common public thing out there.

Kapil Dhiman: 21:18

Now i think recently Google also released what their quantum computers computer is close to breaking Bitcoin encryption. Why? It's very simple. It's math, like I explained in the beginning. So that's the flip side. But do we have to worry about it? I wouldn't use the word worry. I would use the word we have to be very knowledgeable and acknowledge that fact that every good has an evil. And no matter which technology we develop, like AI, AI is brilliant, right? We are celebrating the success of AI. But at the same time, it has a lot of flip side as well, like creating deep fakes.

Kapil Dhiman: 21:48

And that's why a lot of startups who are working in the direction of identifying deep fakes are being funded immensely well now and making a lot of success. Why? Because as important as it is to develop AI infrastructure, equally important is to prevent the negative impacts of AI, which is deepfakes, for example. Same will be the case with quantum. Billions of dollars are invested in developing quantum technology, quantum chips. Now you mentioned about, you know, refrigerated room. Now money is invested in creating quantum chips that do not require so much of cooling as well. Cooling technologies, which are human friendly, they are being invented. So a lot of investment is happening in making quantum computers computing accessible so that in five years it can fit in your pocket.

Kapil Dhiman: 22:31

At the same time, similar amount of investment is required and is happening now to prevent the attacks of quantum computers. In our industry, creating, for example, the business that Curanium is doing, creating quantum secure blockchain, creating technologies which allows you to transition from a pre-quantum to post-quantum era, post-quantum cryptography, encryptions, which a lot of enterprises like Accenture, PwC, KPMG, all these big enterprises are helping their clients move to post-quantum era. So all these transitions are happening. So a flip side will always exist. Acknowledgement of that, understanding that, and not being blinded by just beautification of the speed of quantum, that's important. Once we have acknowledged that, and I'm sure the flip side will be taken care of. And we are doing that very aggressively in that direction.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 23:18

Yeah. And, you know, obviously for the AI or even quantum computing, even if they're matched together, I mean, you can certainly... can wreak havoc across the world. And we haven't even solved how to prevent such negatives of happening in AI, let alone quantum, right? And I think the technology is moving so fast that, you know, people who are kind of in this industry or people who are in the regulation side of things have not been able to kind of even predict or even lay the groundwork for how to use this technology.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 23:51

Even recently with the US government, there was, you know, in the BBB, the "big, beautiful bill," they talked about AI, but they weren't really understanding whether it should be done on a regulated on a federal level, it should be on a state level. I mean, there's always going to be these back and forth. Obviously, with democracy, there's always going to take so much time to get anything done. I feel like, you know, our industry needs to kind of, I mean, the whole technology industry needs to think about, you know, kind of being able to self-regulate this to a certain extent that you don't have malicious actors.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 24:20

But obviously, there's going to be, you know, if we're just looking at the crypto side of things, you know, You are building a quantum proof or resistant blockchain. But, you know, even looking at the ones that we already have, you mentioned that blockchain or any other blockchains out there. Why aren't they quantum proofing themselves? Have you had those kind of discussions with them?

Kapil Dhiman: 24:39

Yeah, we are very actively. So every blockchain out there, which is currently not quantum secure, they're aggressively working towards moving towards post quantum cryptography. The reason you will not find them actively talking about it or actively accepting about that this is a threat in public I tweeted recently that every time Michael Saylor says that buy Bitcoin is because he holds billions of dollars worth of Bitcoins. He's not going to come out and say, okay, Bitcoin has a quantum threat. Because if people start selling Bitcoin, 10% of downfall in Bitcoin is causing him billions.

Kapil Dhiman: 25:11

We as humans have a tendency that we listen to people who have a much bigger aura and much bigger personalities. And if they say something, we believe in it without digging deeper into it. They will always say that you don't have to worry about quantum threat because their billions are invested in technologies which are not quantum secure. So all I invite everybody to just check. It's plain logic. It's maths. Just study maths and then you'll find the answers. Now, every blockchain without being public about it because they have to save their money is working towards moving to post quantum cryptography. Solana, publicly announced, I think, a couple of months back. Ethereum, their biggest mission right now is identifying how to become quantum resistant. Bitcoin has a BIP360, which is about moving to post-quantum cryptography. Casper, which is a blockchain infrastructure that I respect a lot, is working towards quantum resistance. Ripple as well.

Kapil Dhiman: 25:59

Every blockchain algorithm has publicly announced that they are quantum secure. I question that, but of course, they have done that. Now, every blockchain, this is their primary focus. The reason is, it's inevitable. There is a formal paper released by NIST, National Institute of Standards and Technology, which is a signing authority on algorithms you can use to build infrastructures or build products. They have mentioned by 2030, ECDSA, which is the current digital signature algorithm every blockchain and every crypto uses, will be discontinued. It is formally written and released to public that in five years, ECDSA will be discontinued. So that's the biggest signal, right?

Kapil Dhiman: 26:36

So everybody is working towards moving to post quantum cryptography signatures. Like we use SLSDSA, which is a PQC signature approved by NIST. Other projects are finding a way to migrate. They will have to do it. There is no other option. And my prediction is out of the projects that you see today, 90% in the next five years will die. 10 years will be able to successfully migrate to post quantum cryptography. 90% will not because change is the most difficult things for many and you're not able to maneuver. And this 90 will be replaced by new 90, which is taking birth today and will evolve over the course of next five years. This is how the shift. in our space will happen 90 today will die new 90 will be born 10 will transition and will be successful and that will be the new 100 after the next five years that will continue to take the leap forward for our industry.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 27:27

And how about wallet providers exchanges all these kind of service providers today are they preparing for this availability or are they still kind of sidestepping at the moment because these are the ones that actually ultimately will protect digital assets, digital properties in the future. And if these guys are not quantum safe, then it's going to be very difficult for us to even as individuals to make sure that our digital life is safe, basically.

Kapil Dhiman: 27:54

I've had discussions with almost all the wallet providers, of course, because of the nature of the business we are in. 60 to 70% are aware about it, want to take some action about it. 30 to 40% neglect it. And I feel sorry for them sooner or later, you know, it's going to be a blow in the face kind of a situation. So 30 to 40% are neglecting it because, and the reason they are neglecting it is they have a very successful business already running. Shifting it will cause hurdles and they don't see it as an immediate need. 30 to 40% will fall in that category, I would say.

Kapil Dhiman: 28:23

And this is based on my personal discussions that I've had. So I'm not quoting it as an industry number. The 60 to 70% who's working towards making this transition and acknowledge this fact Some are slow, some are super fast. So we are working actively with this 60 to 70% population who is interested in moving to post-quantum cryptography in any way possible. And out of this, you know, there will be some industry leaders like Ledger, right, who's in the cold wallet space, who's much more secure.

Kapil Dhiman: 28:48

People are going to start preferring, for example, me personally, I don't save any crypto in a hot wallet. None. None for that matter. It's only, you know, a wallet like Ledger where any of the crypto asset will be held because it's like much, much, much, much, much safer, right? So the immediate action has to be taken by these hot wallet companies like Metamask, Trust, Phantom for that matter. They have to move to post-content cryptography because, you know, they are at much bigger risk than the cold wallets like Ledger or Trezor for that matter. So like I said, 60 to 70% is the population which has started paying attention to it. 34 to 40 is still lagging behind.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 29:24

And what's gonna happen to like seed praises and, passwords and all these things i mean obviously we're really relying on our phones our hardware wallets etc for us we can do our best to kind of make sure that the passwords are secure etc but you know in a post-quantum world you know all these measures are going to be obsolete anyway so like what is the new standard do you think that's going to happen?

Kapil Dhiman: 29:45

Two things there, Taka. Right, number one is the security of our seed phases and the security of our wallet that is already vulnerable for example MetaMask when you download and you're using it on your computer or your mobile it downloads a json file in your system if somebody gets access to your system and this is like the hackers are getting really creative these days so i'll use an example in the interest of our audience they will pose as and this recently happened with me i connected with somebody on LinkedIn and image five minutes after that i get a message on Telegram, same name, verified account, "Hey nice connecting on LinkedIn." And we are in the similar industry, you know, so the profile is, of course, this person is, again, 15 years in the business, so a reputable profile. So when that person message, I respond, send Calendly, we set up a call, get on a call, the Zoom link appears, and in the background, I can see the person. And in the front, it is showing your SDK has expired, please download.

Kapil Dhiman: 30:38

And there is no way like 95% of the people would think it as like, okay, genuine, like I want to speak with this person. This person is like really respectable in the business. And on the side, this person is texting me on Telegram that, oh, this is a problem. Just download. It is a fix. This is a guide. And I'm like, okay, I'm in the business of preventing hacks and cracks. So it will be difficult for you to get this on me. But what would happen if I would have clicked that download? What happens is you click the download. This file goes in the terminal of your computer. You will double click it. It will get access to your computer. Within five seconds, it will extract all the JSON files that are sitting in the system. In this case, a JSON file for Metamask. And in the next 10 seconds, your wallet will be empty. They will get access to your wallet and the money will be moved. This is how creative hackers have become today. So our seat faces, our wallet is already at risk. Add a flavor of brute force. Now, this was a hack. Now I talk about brute force. GPUs, like I said, is calculation, right? They provide you strength. Creative cracking. Now, this was hack what I talked about. Now, cracking is where you get enough compute to reverse engineer a private key from a public key. Now, the moment I send you any money through any crypto thaka, my public key is flashing on the network, as the name suggests.

Kapil Dhiman: 31:54

But the private key is secure because in between sits ECDSA. which is very difficult to solve. With brute force, with powerful GPUs, you can reverse engineer a private key from your public key. The moment you get that, your wallet becomes my wallet. Multiply the speed by a million, that will happen with a quantum computer. Quantum computer will be able to brute force and get access to your private key in a second. With GPUs, some people may take six months, two months, three months, one month, depending on how much data they have, how much information they have.

Kapil Dhiman: 32:25

All this is already happening. Our crypto is not safe today. It's just don't get disclosed so actively in the media for the sake of whatever. But it is happening today. It is very important. Whenever I get this opportunity, I say this with all the passion that we are talking about the growth of blockchain and crypto industry. It is very important. We are all committed towards it. It's more than $3 trillion worth of assets and money sitting on blockchain. It's sitting on a blockchain which can be cracked. Just see the math. So $3 trillion can collapse. It's going to be like the next big housing crisis if we don't pay attention to it. So that's how serious it is.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 33:04

The crypto industry would be gone by then, right? I've been in the custodian space. I've been in the wallet space for four and a half years now. And it's really difficult to convince people that security is the most important thing because they don't really care. And that's always been the hardest thing for me for this time that I've been in this space to convince people that security is more important than all the other features that comes with it. But the unfortunate fact is you always have to meet the clients where they are. usability. They want flexibility. Security is a kind of a second thought. It's a giving, right?

Takatoshi Shibayama: 33:38

So, you know, I think, you know, through this podcast, I hope that people really understand why security needs to be kind of evaluated once again. It's super important. We've already seen many hacks that happened this year with the beginning with Bybit hack and all the other hacks that we've seen up until today. So let's say, you know, curating launches. I'm very worried that all my crypto assets are going to be hacked. I'm going to move it onto your chain. What is the roadmap for you guys? Like, what can I do from there? So I have my tokens on the curating layer now. So what is the kind of secondary things that I can start doing? What's on the roadmap?

Kapil Dhiman: 34:14

Before the curating roadmap, you know, when you're explaining about people not finding security interesting, I remembered a very interesting anecdote. I was speaking with this very interesting investor, and we are discussing about the same proposition. And he said something very unique like security is not sexy couple that's why people pay less attention to it security is not sexy what do you have to say about it and i had two responses to that number one is my upbringing right my father being in the air force half of my family was in the military so I learned that our soldiers secure the borders that's when civilians live a very happy life.

Kapil Dhiman: 34:46

So happiness is equally relatable or like really connecting well with the security. If we are secure, only then we are happy. You remove the element of security, any kind of happiness from our life goes away. So my response to this gentleman was, you will not find anything sexy if you're not secure. You better start looking at security in a sexy way. Now, having said that, the roadmap for us continuing the same philosophy is to create an infrastructure where you can feel comfortable putting any kind of money, any kind of data, data without the worry of it getting stolen so that you get a peace of mind so that you can be relaxed today.

Kapil Dhiman: 35:23

Now, for example, even if it is inconvenient to use a cold wallet, people still use it because they are worried that in the hot wallet money will go away. We are creating the hot wallet, which will have a security of a cold wallet. So QSafe wallet is our quantum secure wallet, which is multi chain. It supports every blockchain out there. You can store your Ethereum, you can store your Bitcoin, you can store your Solana. on QSafe wallet and this wallet is quantum secure. So it's practically impossible for this wallet to be cracked. And very soon we are coming up with a bounty program as well if anybody cracks it. That's not going to happen. So that's why we are coming up with it.

Kapil Dhiman: 35:55

And so we are a layer one infrastructure, of course. So any kind of dApps, layer twos can be built on it. We already have more than 55 projects building on Quranium. In the next one month, it's going to double up. And we have our wallet to secure your money, to secure your digital assets in the most quantum secure environment. And it supports every blockchain out there.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 36:12

Great. I mean, I'm very excited for your launch. I'm excited to see what other features that is going to be on Quranium. I'm really in it from the beginning of this journey. Since I heard about you guys and you reached out and we discussed on your Quantum Minds podcast, which is an excellent podcast. I know you guys are on season two now. Really looking forward to see more and more of that. We're kind of at the end of our recording now. Where can people discover more about Quranium, Quantum Mind podcast, anything that you post out on socials?

Kapil Dhiman: 36:41

The best way to reach out is on our website. We take our website as the first visiting card for the company and every initiative that we do. So curanium.org and you'll find all the relevant links there or Follow us on Twitter at direct, Quranium, again, Quranium underscore ORG. That's where everything about the company and even our podcast. Podcast, we are evolving even more with season two. We are creating a dedicated product, if I may use that word, with a dedicated website, dedicated pages, much more firepower being put behind it. We have about 35 media partners now for our podcast. So it's going to explode. Season two is going to explode. So I think, Taka, you'll have to come back again. I would love to have you with much more firepower behind Quantum Minds now because season one was really successful. And thanks to, thank you so much, Taka. You took out the time and you came. And by the way, it was one of my favorite episodes. episodes, that discussion with you. Thank you so much.

Takatoshi Shibayama: 37:33

And also, thank you very much for being on the show. It's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening. If you like what you hear, give Blockcast a like and a subscribe on your favorite podcast channels, Spotify, Apple, wherever they are. For all your juicy Web3 news, keep updated on Blockhead.co. You can also catch Valentin's Daily Views on the market on BRN. Catch you all in the next episode.