SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey there, Crypto Curious gang. It's time to plug in and play with the Blockheads at BlockCast. Strap in for a weekly whirlwind tour through the blockchain jungle, where NFTs, shiny coins, and crypto titans tango. Serve that with a side of spicy insights and the crunchiest bits of the digital sphere. Let's dive into the decentralized deep end. BlockCast is live in three, two, one.

SPEAKER_01: 0:34

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of BlockCast. And this week, we have a special guest in the studio with us. He's an associate director at Randstad, Rumi Mohammed, with more than eight years of recruitment agency experience in Singapore. He's also spent time at Randstad focusing on hires across the crypto, fintech and payments market. This conversation is going to be interesting. If you are interested in looking for a job in the space or curious about hiring trends amid the bull market, Rumi's here to share his insights with us. Rumi, welcome.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03

Thank you. Thank you for having me here. Yeah, I'm excited to share, you know, my thoughts. I've been doing this for now for close to nine years in recruitment. I think, you know, I've been doing recruitment within the Web3 crypto blockchain space since 2017 and early 2018. You know, I work with Randstad. Essentially in Randstad at the moment, so I'm the associate director there. I run a team of 10 and we focus across all sales and marketing roles. I have my peers focusing on other roles like your accounting, finance, HR, you know, tech and so on. And then within my team, all of them really focusing on the fintech and then crypto space. Randstad as a whole, maybe I can give a quick introduction on Randstad. So we do provide not only recruitment, but we do like, you know, we have a Randstad source, right? They do more MSP RPO, which essentially is putting recruiters on demand on your client workplace to outsource certain parts. And also the Randstad Rise Smart, which is essentially is more on the coaching outplacement. So we do cover end-to-end you know from getting a job to you know if touch wood something happens to your job then we do the coaching the teaching and CV writing and teaching you how do you go about finding your next

SPEAKER_03: 2:12

role do you see a lot of people moving from web 2 into web 3 those are the people that you help get jobs or are they ready in web 3

SPEAKER_02: 2:20

okay so we take a step back and we look at 2017-18 to be in all honesty you know crypto or web 3 has not really came out in Singapore yet so during that time yes we see a lot more talents from the Web2 space, trying to enter the Web3 space.

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

But before that, you were in Web2 or non-crypto before moving into Web3. I mean, how do you get exposed to this industry and what's the journey been like so far?

SPEAKER_02: 2:48

Good question. Yes, exactly. Right. all, I would say, discipline, right? From your sales and marketing, to your tech, to your legal, compliance, finance and accounting, and so on. Essentially, at that time, there was not, there was, understanding about crypto and blockchain, but there was not a lot in the internet like today. What happened then was essentially, you know, I did my own background on the founders, understand who they are, and, you know, trying to really understand what is this blockchain or crypto technology and where is it trying to disrupt, what is it trying to beat, right? And that started there. You know, fortunately enough, also back then, my direct manager, David, and my MD, Jaya, she essentially was like, hey, this looks like a new space. Why not, you know, try focusing on it? on it. But you're right. You know, when I first came in, it was always focusing on the web tool space. And I think from 2018, you know, I was given blessing from my superiors to say, hey, why don't you invest in it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:11

I mean, there's also been a rush into the industry and a lot more companies have been setting up in this space in Singapore since then. So, I mean, I'm sure you've been kept busy all this time.

SPEAKER_02: 4:21

Yes, I mean, this will be my third bull run per se, inverted commas. I think the first one was 2018, 2019. Yes, you know, it was for a period of probably six to about 12 months. It was very busy, right? Especially, you know, during that time, you see mainstream media always covering, hey, Bitcoin hit all time high. Hey, this is number, you know, it went up by how many, 10x, 8x, right? so people were like hey what is this you know what is this industry and how can I enter it yeah so you're right yeah during that time

SPEAKER_03: 4:48

then conversely when it's not a bull market when everything's you know gone completely completely bare and there's loads of layoffs how do you then pivot people from the X positions to new positions like so I think that's

SPEAKER_02: 5:02

when the benefit comes in if you do join say you know it's not necessary just being in a web tree or crypto space but if you do join a startup I think the experience you get the growth mindset, you get the buy-in from the founders, and you get a lot more responsibilities. So that created a very different type of, I'll say, candidate profile. And if you can survive in better commerce, in a startup that has potentially less direction, that things can change within two weeks to a month, projects that you do from the start, that you invest that three months, could be just shut off, and you are okay with that, then I think that's where... they really grow. And that's where a lot of Web2 companies will be able to take them back.

SPEAKER_03: 5:47

Right. Do you think there's like a stigma or a fear perhaps of the Web3 crypto industry due to its volatility? Like how do they, like they said, if they say, oh, Rumi, this job sounds really interesting, but I'm scared, you know, it's bull market one day, bear market next day. I don't know my job security. How do you?

SPEAKER_02: 6:03

Yeah,

SPEAKER_03: 6:04

I get that a

SPEAKER_02: 6:05

lot. You know, honestly, I think 90% of the talents I speak to will always say that. So I think the main part that you can look at is, you know, one is growth in terms of wealth and the other one is growth in terms of your, you know, I think yourself, right? In terms of doing more things, getting more responsibility. So the stigma is true, right? I'm not going to say it's not. And how you what I tell candidates to really look at is really look at the founders' background, the funding ground. What are they trying to disrupt? Is that in line to what you want to enter? So the stigma is true, but I think more importantly is partnering like someone like Randstad is that because we've been doing it a long time, we could give you an overview of where they want to go. And then I think furthermore from that, I tell the talent to do your own due diligence, right? Don't just believe me. Don't just believe what you see and what you hear from me, go and understand, go and research, you know, information is freely out there. Obviously during a, let's say a bear market, yes, I've seen, I've seen big firms, small firms, you know, even firms shutting down within a WebTree or crypto space, but this is just part of a normal market cycle. I think they are more talked about because My opinion is that because the bull and bear market, you know, it's a very short time spent compared to a traditional market. We do get layoff everywhere, right? It's just that because it's short time spent, then media creates a lot more

SPEAKER_03: 7:30

attention on it. Probably guilty of that. We covered a lot of layoffs and hirings as well. Do you see like a trend, like when there's a bear market, there's a certain job scope or job sector that is most vulnerable to be cut off first? Yes and no. I think,

SPEAKER_02: 7:47

you know, the truth is during the bull market, you know, the crypto space organization, sometimes not all, but forget that there is a bear market coming because it's all about positivity, all about the bull market. Let's hire, let's grow, let's grow, right? User adoption rates goes up. trading volume goes up. And that's across all functions. They don't just hire at one function, but they hire across all functions. During a bear market, I think the cuts will happen across most functions. But if I have to pinpoint a place that probably get cut a bit more than the others, it depends on the projects they're trying to build. So i.e., if the app is trying to build a new feature, a new product, and it's like, okay, let's script this, right? I don't need this, then developers might get affected. Or there's no much funding for this new app or app that you're trying to then okay, right? And then they will try to be a bit more lean on the support function. So your finance, your accounting, your legal, your HR they do get affected. Talent partners do usually get affected first because they know they're going to hire less.

SPEAKER_01: 8:50

How true is it that the digital asset space is basically stealing or attracting all the talent from TradFi, gaming, and other sectors that is slowly becoming absorbed into the web-free world? Is this talent drain from the traditional finance sector real? And the second part of that is also, is there really a lack of fintech or digital assets talent, at least here in Singapore?

SPEAKER_02: 9:13

I think like any new industry, be it, you know, crypto back then, or I think AI moving forward. The thing is, talent is a scarcity, especially in a place like Singapore, where, you know, we have probably, I think, a million or 1.5 million professional workers there. To your question, do they attract ThreatFi people and you see crypto? Yes. Yes, I would say. I mean, if you do a quick LinkedIn search, you can see senior folks from the traditional ThreatFi space moving to the crypto. It's just because I think in terms of regulators in terms of depends on the organization but depends on the objective they want this person to have the skill sets they might look into that aspect and the best bet would be for people you know with the specific skill set i.e i give you example let's say institutional sales people in the bank do that on a daily basis right if you want to find institutional sales reading for let's say crypto to sell on the institution It's an obvious place to look at at first. It could be from others, but Treadfire will be an easier way to pivot in. Obviously, you know, we have seen people coming from the web tool space, the tech sales moving in. They might take maybe a longer time to ramp up, but those will be the easiest. And then the second question I think you're asking is, is it true that there's, let me get it right, not enough digital asset talents in Singapore or scarce?

SPEAKER_01: 10:31

Yeah, or at least to support like this growing industry in Singapore.

SPEAKER_02: 10:34

You know, I think crypto as a whole, Bitcoin was, I I think the white paper was really sometime end 2008, 2009. So if you think about it, this industry per se, it's 15, 16 years old. And I would say for the first five to 10 years, there was not a lot of interest in it. Because of that, if you want specific experience within the crypto and Web3 space, Yes, there's a lack of talent. What I advise my client is all the time is look at their skill sets, look at what they can bring on the table. And secondly, I think which is very important maybe for talents listening to this is that I think humility, being humble and the ability to understand that the ramp up to understand the industry, understand the products that the company is doing will take some time and you need to basically work doubly as hard if you want to ramp up as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_01: 11:23

What would you advise, you know, a potential talent who want to look for a job in this field? Like how would you build a strong resume or portfolio for digital asset jobs?

SPEAKER_02: 11:32

For talents listening out there, I get this. I think for talents who don't have the experience yet in the crypto or blockchain or Web3 but want to enter it, few things you can do, right? One is definitely understanding blockchain technology one and cryptocurrency because they're different, right? A peak interest in those and you reading about it, you understanding it, give you advantage because if I put you in front of a client and I know the client well, I could help you tell the client, hey, meet this person. He might not have the relevant experience in terms of crypto, but he or she will have that interest and has done their own work. Another thing is what I see, you know, people within the Web3 crypto space, some of these talents, I would say, you know, you can write blog posts, you can write LinkedIn posts, give your own thoughts. That sometimes helps also in getting and securing a first interview. Obviously, on top when you get a first interview, I think it's important for talent when you go there to really share with whoever the interviewer is, why is your interest such a high level? What do you believe in? And where do you feel that you

SPEAKER_03: 12:37

can add your skills to this organization? Curious to know, like, I guess if you want a job in finance, you know, you study maths, I believe there are some sort of studies now that you can do at university level that are blockchain related how valuable is that like if you're a student that you think you want to go into web3 what are employers looking for from for them from entry level

SPEAKER_02: 12:59

I think if it's entry level, like I think there's a blockchain causes that's coming up and coding. So I think that's definitely a high demand skill at the moment still. If you really want to understand the coding behind it and you go towards the direction, definitely is a plus point. The rest of it, you know, if it's sales or marketing, I think it's self-learning, a lot of it is self-learning and just really keeping up with the market trend, right? Really reading about the news that's happening because that shows that you're very interested, you're keen and you know, believe it or not, I graduated economics, but you know, I'm not doing economics. So I think it's more critical to put yourself in a position where you show that you're willing to learn.

SPEAKER_03: 13:34

What's the best place to find these jobs? I mean, obviously LinkedIn is an obvious one.

SPEAKER_02: 13:38

Yeah, I think LinkedIn, I would say CryptoJobList, AngelList, and I would suggest if talent wants to really find a job, go, go to the event, right? Go for your token 2049, you know, maybe interact even with blogcasts, right? Understand here in the podcast, understand who is who. Go and add them on LinkedIn and just say, hey, can we have coffee in your fintech festival? There's this, I think there's a numerous amount of crypto events out there. Put yourself out there, go and understand and meet people.

SPEAKER_01: 14:08

And what about going through recruiters like yourself? Could you maybe explain, like, do you guys have access to roles that are not on the market or, you know, what's the difference that you could, make for the potential candidate?

SPEAKER_02: 14:20

I think using recruiters like us, yes, to answer your question straight forward, I think for like probably 60% of the job I close is not even advertised across any platform. Typically, it comes through contacts that I know within the space. I think the beneficial of using us is that we will prepare you throughout the process. Most of the time, I would probably know the hiring manager. I've worked with the client for a long time. I know the nuances. I know the culture fit, what they're looking for. I know their working arrangement. I know, you know, where they're going towards, the company background. So those are the valuable insights I can give. On top of that, you know, I could also help you. You know, you might have questions about similar to what you asked earlier, the stability, the funding, the source of fund, where they're going, I could share that in greater detail. So I think that's the benefit of using someone like us.

SPEAKER_03: 15:09

Yeah, I mean, obviously Singapore has quite a thriving Web3 space, but it's still a very small country. Do you facilitate roles for candidates in Web3 in a wider region? How does that work? Yeah, so

SPEAKER_02: 15:22

typically, no, most of my roles are always focused in Singapore, just because, you know, we support local market and we do have Renstead offices across the globe. So we're in present-day countries. But during my time, you know, especially in our command, maybe a bit more in the Asia-Pacific market, I would say, you know, markets like Vietnam, it's coming up in terms of developers, a lot of tech professionals, technology engineering professionals, within the blockchain, Web3 space, it's in Vietnam. I think South Korea is very big. in the game firewall and then you know i'm sure you're seeing in the market dubai it's welcoming a lot of crypto international firms and giving licenses to these firms to move their headquarters there right they call it gold 2.0 so those are the ones i would say obviously your europe your americas they are growing right i think the one thing to take note is crypto is never sleeping you can hire people remotely So I have clients that have said, hey, Rumi, I need someone in South America. Brazil is a growing market in Turkey. If you can find talents, We do, we have found people before for very close clients of mine. I think the only thing to take note is the income tax and how the money is transferred usually is through the crypto wallet and USDT.

SPEAKER_01: 16:40

I have a question on salary and salary expectations. I guess this is what people would like to know. What are like benchmark salary levels for various roles within the space? I mean, like the type of roles that you place, what are the packages like?

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

So if you take a step back, right? If you think about it, when you first started in crypto in 2017, 2018, when talent look at it is the risk versus rewards. If you are in a, comfortable job in a big stratify, the risk is, you know, you join a new firm and that firm might not last two years. So because of that, typically, in my opinion, during that time, you see crypto space as a general rule of thumb, I would say paying between 20 to 30% above other industry. That has come down now that crypto is, you know, been around for a longer period of time. This is the thing about crypto. Sometimes, in my opinion, title can be misleading. So, you know, a CMO in a very small startup in crypto can be in the range of, I would say anything between$8,000 to$12,000 a month, plus tokens, plus bonus. And the CMO in another firm could be on 30, 35K a month. So I think really understanding which stage of the organization is at, you know, what product have they, have they got a product in the first place? Is it launch, you know, are they generating revenue? And what's the next stage in their building, their organization can give you a better understanding. So it's very hard to generalize anybody and anyone at one time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:17

Bonuses make up a large component of the TradFi salary package, What is that like for digital assets or crypto?

SPEAKER_02: 18:25

It really, really depends on the stage, right? Crypto or digital asset firm that is heavily funded, been around for a long time, their bonus might not be as lucrative, but typically they have their own token. And those token could be traded on any CeFi, CeFi or DeFi platform. So that could make up all of it. I would say, yes, anywhere between 25% to about, 60, 70% bonus on a yearly basis, it's normal.

SPEAKER_03: 18:55

How common is having your salary paid in crypto? Is it a red flag? It feels a bit like... It's a good

SPEAKER_02: 19:01

question. And yes, I'll share more on that. So I had clients, clients that actually says, hey, Rumi, only thing to note is that we pay our salaries in crypto. We pay in BTC. And on the day of the salary, we will give them plus 5%. it's up to them to trade it so um i actually asked the founder why why do you do this you know looking outside in if you're enjoying crypto it could be a very you know sexy fun you know shiny new thing to join but being in crypto is very different so i need this person to understand the commitment level that this person coming in and he believed in this technology right i think it's a fundamental belief that decentralized finance is going to disrupt the traditional finance and they want like-minded individuals not someone that just feel that hey something new and I just want to try it and see what

SPEAKER_03: 19:51

happens. Does it make it more difficult for like accounting purposes both for you as an employee and the employer? So from my

SPEAKER_02: 19:59

understanding they do declare everything you know including paying CPF So they do not hide anything. They just translate. That's the amount that's translated on the day of the salary and given out. So it doesn't in a way. I think maybe additional one, two steps, but they will cover your CPF and everything else. And then obviously, sometimes if you do have a mortgage or you do have fixed costs that you need to pay, and then the founder will be flexible to give you that in fiat.

SPEAKER_03: 20:26

How responsive are people, are candidates, when you tell them that, that this is what the

SPEAKER_02: 20:32

society is going to be like? In a way, it helps our role quite a bit because, you know, those that are not interested at all and say, huh? They just stop there. You know, we don't go interviewing them for a longer period. I would say, you know, it helps to sift out people who are very genuine about joining and have the shared vision of the industry people. So it helps in that. But yes, we do get another, probably 10, 20% more dropouts themselves. Canada is not wanting to do that.

SPEAKER_03: 21:00

So they'll drop out and then just don't want to take the job. Yeah. The employer sees that as like, you're not that serious about the job.

SPEAKER_02: 21:07

Yeah. So the employees would be like, hey, and this is a valid reason, right? Like I mentioned, if you have a mortgage and you're young kids, you know, founders are usually typically quite open. But if it's like, you know, I just don't want it in fiat then you know how truly committed are you to the DeFi space you know in the crypto space

SPEAKER_03: 21:22

kind of interesting I didn't realize there was so much thought behind the it's almost like a

SPEAKER_02: 21:25

test right yes it is yeah I think how the founders see it is just to really understand you know why right

SPEAKER_03: 21:33

why do you want right it's the first level of understanding but that means the company must have a large reserve in bitcoin i would

SPEAKER_02: 21:39

hope so probably they do have a lot if you see a lot of founders started off you know buying bitcoin way back in the day that's

SPEAKER_03: 21:47

what we were skeptical right we've heard of companies we've learned that they had a huge staff of bitcoin and now they're finding companies and now they're just kind of like trying to you know pay off the employees with this massive stash because it doesn't cost them anything which seems a little bit dubious you know it seems a little bit like disingenuous almost to then go and say like it's a test as to whether they're gonna buy gonna buy into it or not

SPEAKER_02: 22:10

i think i think two perspective right one is like what you mentioned is a test second yes i mean i agree but i think for certain of the clients is like hey this is your wallet i'll give you a five percent above market and if you could sell it on the spot you get the fiat immediately to your wallet so i think two school of thoughts but you know if my employees paying me in BTC, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_01: 22:33

Cool, cool. And I think what you're implying is that, you know, they raised Bitcoin back when it was still a shady business. Yeah, that's what I mean. And now they're trying to unload it while not selling it on the market. Yeah, while not selling it

SPEAKER_03: 22:44

and not, you know, I mean, there's a couple of gains tasks, but yeah. as a way of offloading. It is,

SPEAKER_02: 22:49

right? I mean, you know, we heard a lot of stigma within this industry and, you know, so many articles out there. Yes, you know, there are, you know, shady founders. That's why I think back to previously when you asked, I think it's very important to really research the founder, who he or she is. what background they have, why is their vision, and what are they trying to disrupt. So I think fundamentally, you need to know that first. And if that ticks the box, then okay. If not, then I think, then you have to do your own risk assessment.

SPEAKER_01: 23:22

Back to the question on commitment or belief in the industry. How often do you see people just jumping on the bandwagon just because it's the hot place to be and then jumping out? Because, for example, on more than one occasion, we've spoken to quite senior members of staff at crypto trading firms or asset managers who are involved in trading client assets, but they don't even hold crypto or have a wallet. You know, they're just playing the part. How do they even get roles in such a space? I mean, is this a sign of like, you know, the industry's desperation for track five validation?

SPEAKER_02: 23:55

It's true what you say. There are, you know, senior folks that probably I place that did not know, did not own crypto and does not have a wallet. That typically happens when they first join. So I'll say for most of the people that I place, but after that they did buy crypto, right? I had a recent chat with one of the senior folks I placed back in 2017, 18, and he thanked me. He bought BTC at 3K USD when it dipped. So I was like, okay, you know, are you sharing some? So they take a while and most of these people, especially the senior people that you mentioned, right? At the start, when they were trying to enter the crypto, most of them come in, you know, with curiosity, with anticipation of new technology. As you rightly pointed out, as senior people that have maybe a way of thinking, but they know that this could be the future. So I think that happens because they have not understand enough given the experience. And once they do that, then they will join.

SPEAKER_01: 24:47

Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's also, I don't know, at least from my observation, it's just, you know, you're coming from traditional finance where, you know, you're trading commodities or other forms of stocks in actual companies. And they have the belief that, you know, this, like digital assets, there are no fundamentals based on nothing. It's just, you know, a value that, you know, the community ascribes to it. So there's nothing more than that to it. It's just this stigma that needs to be overcome and how, I guess, the non-crypto folk view the space as well.

SPEAKER_02: 25:15

Yeah, I agree, right? Because at the moment, a lot of things is based on speculation. and market trends. And I think that stigma needs to be addressed, but that would take time. I think, you know, where I wanted to share is also that education within the crypto space need to be ramped up. Retail investors need to know what they're putting their money in. You know, back in the day in 2018, with all the ICOs that didn't do well, the rug pull. So I think, you know, some people got their hands burned. And I think it's very critical that moving forward, we should really, really invest. Big firms should invest in educating the general public to get rid of that stigma hopefully

SPEAKER_03: 25:54

in the near future what about do you do hiring for web 2 companies looking for web 3 positions because we're also quite skeptical about that sometimes like we see like again not naming names uh some of these big institutions and then we meet the person who's like head of digital assets or the big like and we're like you know then we look at that linkedin and he's like some low level level and suddenly he's like head of the whole i agree so you know

SPEAKER_02: 26:18

i think i when it's a new technology, your web two firms, people at the top is like, hey, what is this? Can I internally look at someone to lead my digital asset space and expansion of blockchain? So what happens majority of time is they pick someone internally and it's like, you go and do research can you go and understand and then you present to me right so that happens i think the good thing about that is that it just shows that web web 2 companies are willing to invest and and understand uh you know at in my opinion crypto is too or blockchain and crypto is too big to fail now that's why you know there's a positive sign

SPEAKER_03: 26:56

why are they not looking outside of that initial pull like would it not be made more sense to have someone who has been an expert in the space outside of their institution to then bring them in and be like hey you're gonna lead our head of yeah

SPEAKER_02: 27:09

i think they do that too but i think back to our first point talent is quite you know scarce especially web3 truth is there's a lot of you know our inverted commas crypto bros out there that that basically might not have the right experience but you know might have the right marketing so i think that's more of a cautious approach but Most of the firms, yes, in the web too, after they get their internal hate, then they will typically hire out in the market. They might come to me and say, hey, Rumi, we're looking at this. How's the market looking at? Can you look at layer one? Can you look at C5? We need people who understands it, right? Big, big, big corporates. Is it

SPEAKER_03: 27:46

perhaps maybe people already in the Web3 camp who believe in everything that Web3 stands for, are they reluctant to then work in big institutions? Just from like core fundamental?

SPEAKER_02: 27:56

Yeah, sometimes. I would say sometimes some of them because they just believe that they they're too big they're brick and mortar and they're too unwilling to change you know a lot when you consider these big enterprises typically they're listed they have shareholders, there are certain goals they need to achieve and they can't rock the boat too much, right? Compared to a very flat structure in a crypto space where you probably report to the founder or, you know, N minus one or N minus two, and there's a lot more room to innovate. I think that's the critical part. You know, this can innovate, you know, understand and where is the industry moving and you get to do a lot of trial and error. For me personally, where doing the bull market or even doing the bear market, I see a steer race, a race for a super app per se that you can lend, borrow, invest, sell, you know, custody, link to your DeFi. And on top of that, you know, you could even store your Web3 avatar on it. So I'm still looking at that ways that big companies are trying to do. Another improvement that I think is very necessary for today's market would be really looking at the risk controls compliance. Regulators are probably coming up with certain guidelines, but I think the faster we get there, the better for industry. That's my personal opinion. So we know the red tapes not to cross and that can help the industry propel much faster and further and obviously the third one i think education is very critical in this industry people need to understand that right i think for for startup founders for organizations crypto organizations um It's important for the founders or the leaders to really translate their vision, mission, strategy into very simple layman terms if they want to attract the right talent. Make it bite-sized. People do not know, not many, I would say, who would know how to read the white paper, understand your technology. It's just too complicated. But if you can share a vision in a way that you can speak to a CEO and you can speak to someone on the street, that I think will help to attract the right talent. And then for talent, I would say definitely brush up on your knowledge on the industry. Learn as much. I mean, there's Gen AI out there to help you. There is the internet. Just learn, right? Learn as much. And by the time you reach the first interview, you are prepared. You know, the market cap of, you know, let's say a crypto at the moment, you know, when, what new technology is coming up, you know, Web3, I think it's an interesting space that's still developing. You know, I would like to see a lot more focus on the DeFi space. SocialFi is going to be a big thing. GameFi is still growing. I see more and more, you know, traditional game publishers, talents actually moving into the GameFi space. And the idea is to really try to penetrate your traditional GameFi, a traditional gaming space and try to build on the blockchain. I think that's the future of it. Last but not least, you know, I think around the world, we're probably less than 4% adoption rate globally in terms of humankind. So endless possibilities and, you know, whole.

SPEAKER_01: 30:47

Well, maybe just to wrap up, some advice for our listeners who might be preparing for digital asset job interviews. You know, are there common interview questions or technical challenges or like industry knowledge expectations that they need to be aware of?

SPEAKER_02: 31:01

Yeah, I mean, they could be. Maybe what I can share is, you know, understand the difference between, let's say, Ethereum and ETH. You know, understand the difference between, let's say, a hard wallet and a cold wallet. Just very simple. And, you know, like I say, C5 versus DeFi. Sometimes those questions commonly comes out because they want to know that you at least did your basic homework. The bar's pretty low. Yeah, it is. And you'll be shocked to see that how many people actually did not even do that, right? I think on top of that, put yourself in a situation where, you know, if you are a talent looking into, and I said this before, I think, you know, what skill sets that can translate from your current experience, your previous experience into this space, right? because potentially your stakeholders could be the same. The technical capabilities that you're doing at the moment could be the same. It's just learning maybe a new technology, learning the nuances of the organization.

SPEAKER_01: 31:52

And for listeners who might want to find out more or get in touch with you, how can they do that?

SPEAKER_02: 31:57

Yeah, I think firstly, you can add me on LinkedIn. Second, you can email me at rumi.mohd at renstad.com.sg. Happy to always... meet up a fellow fellow talent or a client you know to give you my personal opinion always having coffees right yeah less of drinks nowadays

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

well thanks for taking the time to speak to us it's been really insightful and uh yeah i hope to hear from more from you soon

SPEAKER_02: 32:22

thank you thank you thank you uh team block us